There is a phenomenon called the "A,B'C's" of pastor's conferences; Most ask or at least want to ask questions about Attendance, Building programs, and Cash flow. If the questions aren't asked outright, we usually fish for information. Being the pastor of the best church in the Western hemisphere accounts for nothing if attendance isn't up there. It seems to be a factor in determining the success of a pastor's church. But I saw a clip from a move that was of great benefit to me in answering these questions. It's from the movie "The Guardian" with Kevin Costner and Ashton Kucher. In the movie, Costner plays a Coast Guard rescue diver who becomes an instructor at at the elite"A" school. But he is a kind of legend. Stories about how many "saves " he has are as ubiquitous as stories of Big Foot! Some say he has 200, others 300, but no one knows for sure.
Kutcher plays a self motivated swimmer who has no concept of team. Well, through it all, Costner and Kutcher becomes friends. But Costner, who had a traumatic expereince early in the movie that haunts him where a helicopter he was flying in went down and killed his best friend. Kutcher and Costner team up after "A" school but Costner freezes during a critical rescue and he decides to give up rescue swimming. And as He leaves the locker room with a few of his belongings, Kutcher (Fish) askes him, "I've got to know; How many saves did you have?" After a long pause, he says "27". "27! Fish says, "Not bad...it's not 200." "27 losses" Costner says. It's the only number I kept track of"
So when people ask "So Steve, how big is your church?" my response is "119,000". "119,000! impossible!" they say. No church is that big. 119,000 is the population of the city I live in. It's the number of people that are still lost. It's the only number I as a pastor really need to keep tack of In other words, my ministry will not be shaped by the number of people in my church--the number of saves-- but by those who are still lost.
May God give my fellow ministers a passion to count the lost and not just the saved. May we base our worth first off by Jesus and then our desire to serve him in simplicity and gladness of heart...counting ourselves privileged just to be called to serve Him as ministers
Wednesday, September 12, 2007
The Guardian
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11 comments:
Steve,
I'll never go to Senior Pastor Conferences the same! You have 119,000...well, I've got 3 million!
I like how Jesus spoke to Paul in a night vision and said about the city of Corinth, "I have many people in this city". And this was even before a church was started there!
That's an awesome application for the church from The Guardian. I like it and am glad you used it in your sermon last week.
I hadn't heard of the ABC's. But I've heard the 3B's (which are the same): Bodies, Buildings, Bucks.
Art Azurdia pastored a church for a number of years. Whenever they reached 400, they planted a new church. They never grew bigger than 400. And this is a guy, because of his giftedness in preaching, likely could've pastored a mega-church. I think that shows tremendous humility, contentment with a lower salary than he could've had if he pastored thousands, and passion for reaching the lost.
Pete
It is very good to see you popping in here once in a while. I've called and tried to get an email for you. If you have a moment email me at sh621@hotmail.com that way I'll have it. thanks. I Appreciate your insights and your ministry there at Capo.
Like the way you're defining church here in this post Steve. Nicely worded.
Dewdly doo, you have completely missed the point once again, UGGG, I get quite tired of having to correct you.
Church is defined quite nicely by the numbers of butts warming your pew/chairs. It is defined by the number of said rumps who regularly tithe, and your worth as a minister of Jesus Christ is exactly that of the Churchians you have attending your feel good discussions.
That cleared, Amen brother and thank you for being there when i need someone to smack me upside the head.
stevie,
bullseye with the analogy and amen with the re-focus on the task still at hand. If anyone ever wonders why it doesn't seem Jesus is present in their church service, it may be that he's out seeking the one(s) still outside the fold. He did define a good shepherd in those terms, too. blessings, bro. Phil
Yo Steve-a-Reno,
Excellent article, my friend!
As usual, Steve, a penetrating insight. I hope it feeds our perspective for a long time to come.
Free for lunch tomorrow?
Yo Steve,
Interesting perspective... I recently was encouraged by a pastor I greatly respect who encouraged me not to count people but to weight them. I was expecting your conclusion to be Costner had his focus off he should have focused on his saves over his losses. Both points are well taken to the mega-church it leaves no room for apathy or pride because in there city most likely there are more people turning to crack than to Christ. To the micro-church pastor to rejoice over the saves rather than spending so much time focused on the losses
*Luke 15:7 "joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repents, more than over 99 just persons, which need no repentance."
Good stuff,
B.Fowler
Steve- I always enjoy reading your stuff and listening to the podcast. Houston is the home of megachurches of 40,000 and beyond. It's always one of the first questions to me, "So, how big is your church?" There is a formula for a big church- Dynamic Leader + Lots of Resources + Good Location + Great Facilities + a Make it Happen Staff = A Big Church. Notice that the Holy Spirit is not in the equation. Our pastor warns us of this all the time. Big church does not equal God's blessing (for example, the LDS church- they are growing, but God is not in it). Don't make church a formula, but rely on God's SPirit every step of the way- if we aren't intentional about this, then we'll just rely on our expertise. Kevin
Steve,
great application from the Guardian...
do you mind if I steal it? I didn't think so...don't worry I'll give you credit as some pastor friend of mine.
:)
ryan couch
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